"Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Tongue and Interpretation of Tongues"

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hi, welcome to Fit 101, Vocalizing Every Noted Topic with a Christian twist. I'm June Bryant, your host, and we welcome you to our podcast. Our vision is to win souls to Christ and to help those who know him by giving them a fresh new perspective on Christian living and reading God's Word. Our mission is to biblically educate people while growing in their Christian walk by answering questions that they are uncomfortable to ask in a church-like setting. You can find us wherever you get your podcast. Please like and subscribe. You can also visit us on YouTube, Instagram, or on our website vent-101.com, where you can leave any questions or comments that you may have. Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. So we can go on and get started with this.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Good morning. And I just want to say I'm just glad to be here. I am Pat, and hopefully you open up your ears, your heart to receive what we have to say today.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Hey, good morning and good day to everybody at the podcastline. This is Antoine. I hope everybody's been having a good day and having a and had a good week so far. So that back was home.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

It's all right.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Hey, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

It's all right. Just glad to be back. Pastor Joel looking for another great time.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Welcome. Welcome Pastor. Yeah. Well, please note before we get started, Pastor Joel, don't uh we already told him it's mandatory that he come back. Anyway, because this is gonna be uh we're gonna have another continuation. But uh just uh I don't have an opening, we're gonna dive right in on uh our what is the next one in line? The speaking of tongues.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Gift of tongues. The gift of tongues. Interpretation of tongues.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yes, man. So take it away, sir.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Well, as I said, I'm glad to be back, and this is really a hot topic.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

It's one that should not be taken lightly, it's one that is dividing many believers, uh, one that should not be dividing the church, one that should not be a real hot issue because scripture is clear. And what I'm finding, after 42 years of ministry, you know, I've helped to plant churches, I've helped to grow churches where we actually went in. My dad pastored. We went in, we had a place, and I mean we drywalled, we did everything. And I've worked with various denominations, and I've learned, and I'm still learning. We never arrive, I want to make that clear.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I can be another 42 years, but what I try to learn, I try to share. And when love is our motivation for what we do, the body of Christ is benefited. So I'm not here to pick sides, I'm not here to try to influence, and none of us are trying to get anyone to choose sides. That's not what teaching and scripture is about. It's about, if anything, it's about unifying the body of Christ. Because if we declare Jesus as Savior, then we are one body. And when it comes down to the gift of tongue, the interpretation of tongue, uh, my desire is to be able to bring clarity, say what the word says. So if you're unhappy, you're just gonna be unhappy with the word.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

But I'm praying and I'm believing it. There are some people that are listening that's going to be willing to say, you know what? I see that differently. I didn't know that at first. You know, Pastor, I may not be to just totally, you know, eat that piece of fish and spit all the bones out, but but I'm going to at least go back, get into my Bible. I'm going to pray. And if I have to consecrate, push that plate aside, do what you have to do, because I believe there are people that are listening that want to know the truth. Yes. I believe there are people that are listening that want to do the truth.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

And I believe God's going to use this session to help free somebody so they won't be misled. Yes. But at the same time, he's going to give them wisdom, then they can walk in and have whatever conversations they need to or leave where they are. I'm not advocating an Exodus. But sometimes when you're confronted with the truth, it causes us to make choices. And those decisions that we make determine whether we're going to grow in Christ or we're going to stay right where we are.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

So I'm going to start out with the question.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

The Bible in well, where is it? Where is it? Where is it? We just read it. Is it 14? 13. No, 13 is love. Uh, my question is where it talks about uh the speaking of tongues. When you get in a body of people, I'll I'll say the Lord has given me the gift of tongue recently, but when I speak in tongues, I'm at home privately, and I don't even realize that I'm doing it until I come to myself. It scared me at first. And secondly, uh sometimes when you go to church, when you're at church service, uh it'll come on you. But my question is people that speak in tongues all at once. Well, I'm gonna give it uh tell the truth shame the devil. Tell the truth, shame the devil. I went to a service, me and Pat went to a worship service where the uh lady that was speaking told everybody, well, now speaking, uh did she say speaking? And everybody just broke out speaking in tongues. Okay, and I got an eerie feeling through my body, and I looked at Pat and she looked at me and we left. Okay. Because it it did, ooh, I'm getting chills now because it just didn't feel right. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. But I respect that gift because I never thought I was a firm believer and I ain't gonna speak in no tongue. Left on a Cadillac come back on a Honda. I used to make that, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Left on a Cadillac come back on a Honda, and you say it over and over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

And there are some uh religions or denominations that say you're not saved.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

And your response with uh the baptism of water with the the thief on the cross.

SPEAKER_05 8:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

So what do you say to people to understand that this is word here? And they come up, uh there are several questions because they have the re answers for the reason that they speak that it's mandatory. Sure. So can you Okay I know? That was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah, so let's unpack it. Yes. Where we can, you know, boom. We'll put the baloney on, then we'll put the pickles, then we'll put the mayo. Okay. So let's start with the let's let's start. Let me give you let me give you a case study. It's dealing with what you just said about the situation where, you know, the one that's in charge said, okay, everybody speaking your handplay language. Okay. Let me read something. So here's a situation. Okay. It says, so a church teaches that everyone should speak in tongues publicly during every service. Members are told they're resisting. They're resisting God if they do not participate. Leaders encourage people to repeat sounds after them until they receive their language. During worship, many people speak loudly at the same time. No interpretation is given because the leaders claim that interpretation would restrict the Holy Spirit. Anyone who asks for biblical order is accused of quenching the spirit. Oh wow. Now, let's let's unpack that. Problem one the gift is being manufactured. Okay. Let's go back to what Paul said. Anyone that makes a requirement, and I want you to hear this good. Anyone that makes a requirement for your salvation to hear you speak in tongues is an error.

SPEAKER_05 10:01

It's an error.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

What did Paul ask? Paul asked, do we all speak in tongues? That's right. Do we all? And he went down the list. So if the answer is no, you requiring to hear me speak in tongues is asking me to go against scripture. I'm not going to manufacture a gift.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Amen.

unknown 10:22

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

That's out of order. Thank you, Jesus. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

That's out of order. It's clear as a bell. Another thing is, you don't teach people how to speak in tongue. Okay. Tongue is given. Yes. If we read the scripture, anyone, I've I've I've had people in a, I'm not gonna say what church it is. But anyway, they would take you in a room and they would teach you how to speak in tongue.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

They say, okay, I want you to say this slowly, then we're gonna speed it up till you get it. Wow. See my tie, tie my bow tie. What? See my tie? Now speed it up. See my tie. Oh, you got it, you got it. No, you don't have it. You do not.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

See my tie, you got a bow tie.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Don't. Wow. But the pressure is true. Jesus, I don't if I don't hear you speak in tongue, then maybe you need to sit down for a while. You don't have it. No, well, I don't have that gift, but I have the Holy Spirit. You're ignoring all this other fruit, but you're listening for the tongue. And I tell you what, if you hear the tongue, can you interpret it?

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Come on. So what's the pressure for you to hear me speak in tongue if you can't interpret it? What's the pressure? Ooh, that's good. So, what in essence, for anyone that teaches, I don't care who it is, where you're from, anyone that teaches contrary to scripture, scripture says the gift of tongue. Now let me further clarify. If you are in a congregation, there is a way for the tongue to operate. As you were saying, if you get up, you have unbelievers in the mist, and this person gets up, hook up a sign, as Sister Pat said, and that one is die, die, die, and that one's, and they're all speaking at the same time, all demanding attention. That's the key. They're all demanding the teaching. Now, if you get up and start speaking, the Holy Spirit take you downstairs or off somewhere else, that's in order. But if anytime you have a gathering of believers where there are unbelievers present, scripture says you should not have that happening. Yeah. But we've learned that emotionalism, we've learned that noise is supposed to equate to power and anointing. I've known quiet, anointed people that can just pass by you, tap you on the shoulder, you fall out, and you get uphealed. They didn't make noise, they didn't make a big scene about it.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

They were just used of the Holy Spirit. And I've also seen a whole lot of people get up and wave their hand and throw and they spit in your face. They throw, they bathe you in awe, and you leave the same way you came in.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

That was deep to say. Yeah, so true. Because the thing, the key part you said it's not about you and the thing that it seems like they're doing is take is the boasting.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Edification of self instead of God.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Instead of God. So to answer your question, that service you all walked out of, A, you did the right thing. You did the right thing. Because if it's contrary to scripture to require someone to just speak on demand, if you don't have the gift and everybody else looking at you like, how come you're not speaking in your heavenly language? Because I speak in my language at home.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

See, when I speak and I'm praying at home, and the tongue is going forth, the Holy Spirit is speaking. Yes. Then the Holy Spirit turns right around and tells me what I what the conversation was. Yes, right. And then I begin to speak in English. And that way I'm in agreement with the Holy Spirit. But then guess what? You have some people that happens at home or in a private situation, but not in a public setting.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

So hopefully that's what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Because when I'm at home, like I said, I when I come to myself, I'm like, then the Lord, like with this podcast, that's where a lot of the revelation comes from. And I'm getting teared up because God is so perfect.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Because I was a firm believer. And I ain't talking in no big unknown tongue. What is that? And I I literally used to make fun of it. So when I called Pat and I told her, I I think I spoke in tongues. I think I spoke in tongues. And it scared me. But my pastor did a sermon on it. And it gave me a totally different perspective on how the Holy Spirit can use your, use you and give you certain gifts for edification of God. And that's what a lot, like what you were saying, people get it misconstrued. There are so many people that are gonna bust hell wide open because they done went somewhere and spoke in a tongue, and there are gonna be a lot of people that are in heaven that didn't speak in tongues, and they're gonna be looking at what she actually made. I know you ain't gonna be thinking like that, right? But there are gonna be so many people that don't have that gift that are gonna be in heaven. So I'm to the new believers and to the believers, y'all, we have to discuss this. Yes, yeah, and you were the right person to be here because I was hesitant. I told them because I was like, we're gonna lose some people because they don't believe that you can be saved. And where does that come from? Why do they believe that uh and it's not a bash traditional?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

This just why why do they believe what? Let me let me know.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

That you have to speak in tongues in order to be saved.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

That you have to speak in tongues, or someone has to hear you speak in tongues. That you have to speak in speaking tongue in tongues in order to be saved. That's that's an error in teaching, that's all it comes down to. And it's just like, again, I I can't get away from it's just like water baptism. There are certain things that people have been taught that they hold on to, and it is a requirement for salvation. This is where discernment comes in. Anything other than the saving power of the blood of Jesus Christ, we have to be very careful when we start making it a requirement for salvation. Yes. Salvation only comes through Jesus Christ. Period. That's it. Period. That's it. But when we start adding stuff where you're not saved unless you are. Yes. You're not saved unless. You're not saved unless then what you're telling me is the Bible is an error.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

That's what you're telling me. An enemy tactic. People have to be very careful because we trust leadership. And we believe that it our leaders just won't tell us wrong. We believe that, you know, well, God sent me here for a reason. Maybe he sent you to some of these places so you can learn what not to do. Amen.

SPEAKER_05 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

I've experienced that personally. That's good. I like the person, but what they taught, they need to go back for another dip. Yeah. They twisted it. They need another touch. Jesus said, He touched that man eye. I said, How do you see it? I see men as trees. Uh no, come back. You need you need one more touch, baby. You're not finished. I'm not saying you can't see, you just don't see right. Yeah. And sometimes people just need to be more disciplined in prayer. I'm telling you, what to help you get free? We have to deliberately, we have to be intentional on our personal consecration, prayer, and study time.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Because when you come into, you start dealing with things that people require for salvation, I'm telling you, we better be very careful because only what scripture says is what matters. And the gift of tongue is just that. It is a gift. You can't, it's no need you praying and asking the Holy Spirit for a gift because the scripture says he gives it severally as he will. That's it. His will. That's it. So, hey, if it's not for me to be publicly speaking in an unknown tongue, let me throw this out there. There, look at technology today. Remember what Paul said? Paul said, where there's tongues, they're gonna cease. Whereas this, there's gonna cease.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Yeah. He said all that.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

But it's not gonna stop before the body is perfected. Yeah. So let me let me clarify that. So gifts are gonna continue until we are where we're supposed to be in Christ. Okay. But look at these devices now. You can get your phone, you walk up to somebody, talk to them, they can speak in a language, and guess what? Yeah. Is that the Holy Spirit? That's your phone. Yes, yes. Did it just interpret a tongue for you? No. Watch this. It translated. It translates. It told you what this person was saying as close to possible, because there are some words and some languages that just doesn't, it just doesn't carry over. Just like when you study Hebrew, when you study, when you study certain things, it's like this is as close as we can get to what that means, but it's sufficient for you to understand, stay away from sin. We said it differently, but ultimately stay away from sin. So when you start talking about tongues, you start talking about the the gift of tongue, scripture says the Holy Spirit gives it as he will. Now, what you do privately, you are encouraged to speak to God in prayer. Sometimes the Holy Spirit will come in and take over your tongue.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Because he knows the things that you don't know. He knows what's coming, he knows what's not coming, he knows how to pray in the spirit. He knows that. And then you get involved by yielding, and you're speaking whatever language you're speaking, and then the Holy Spirit again. Says in English, you say, my deliverance is on the way.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yes. Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So interpretation is not necessarily a word-for-word verbatim, but it is getting what was being communicated. So I don't want anyone to feel bad because scripture says it is a gift. So for if anyone demands you to speak, well, I need to hear you to speak. That's the key. I need you to change your attitude. Because see, that's not God. Come on, we're gonna be real. That's not God. And I'm telling you as your brother, and if anyone that knows me, I don't pull punches. I'm gonna tell you in love, but I'm gonna tell you what scripture says. And if if we have an issue, brother, I'm calling you out on it. Because I expect someone to do that. But guess what? People don't do that today. People let you just go on about your business.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

And then they talk about you.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

And then it's like, but that's not the way. Pastor, if we had an issue, I've had leaders I've disagreed with and we had conversations. But guess what? I didn't disrupt the church.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

I didn't go up and get that mic and say, you know what? I didn't do that because that's not my job. God's gonna take care of that leader. However, if somebody asks me, well, what is so on's well, scripture says that person's in error. That's what you do.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

I got another question. Acts talks about, and I think it's Acts 2, where it talks about the day of Pentecost or something. Absolutely. Is that where they get it from? How does that they combine that together? Or does that because I know it was totally different than this Corinthians?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

There there are movements. See, there there were movements. And when you start going back to the the there time won't permit, but there are movements.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Okay, I shouldn't have brought it.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. There are movements in Acts. That was done, it fulfilled prophecy. That's what that, that's why that happened. They were gathered in one place.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

And the tongue was spoken, and guess what? Even though there was no interpreter, it went directly to those that heard it because they spoke directly to the people that were there. And the Bible said the end result was they were amazed that it confirmed that this is God because we know you don't know our language. And you speaking to us about the wonderful works of God, and they were convinced. Yes. Yes, sir. That was the difference. Unlike a church service where everybody gets up, everybody's speaking, everybody sit down. Whoo, hallelujah. You know how you had a little calm down session. Hallelujah. Ooh, that was the Lord. No, it wasn't. No. Not according to Scripture. No, it was it was not according to Scripture. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And you keep saying that, and that's what we say all the time on here. If you do have questions and stuff like that, especially in that case, ask them to show it to you. And if they don't show it to you, for one, that alone don't make sense. And then two, it like what we always say, and especially when it comes to that how you can be misled, don't just take people's word for it. Pastor, bishop, whatever title, have whatever they're saying, make sure they're giving scripture behind it that's actually following along with the things that they're bringing forth. So you know that the Holy Spirit truly is involved. Because people, that's how they ask Jesus things and manipulate and do all these different things. And so what you said, that's a we talk about that all the time on earth. And it follows them on the same line.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah. This scene was prophesied, too. Go ahead. No, you was talking about the Pentecostal. It was like Pastor Jel was saying it was prophesied in way back in the Old Testament. Isaiah uh 28, remember he said that how God was going to bring that language, you know, uh to other people, like the Gentiles or you know, Samaritans, everybody. So that was the prophecy that uh Pastor Joel was talking about. It had to happen. And it showed evidence that Christ was who he a lot of say, uh, but no, this is gonna happen. Absolutely after he ascended.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

And so that that was just from evidence that you know the message of Jesus Christ was true, and it stands sure today. And can I say my little testimony right here? Well, I had I had I know I got saved because I read it in Romans, I forgot what it was, 9, 10, 8, or something like that. Well, it tells us if you confess with your mouth and if you believe in your heart that God had raised Jesus from the dead, that you shall be saved.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

So without you, how can you have gifts or fill but filled with the Holy Spirit if you haven't given your life over? If you haven't surrendered. Yes. So, you know, and when I went to that church, I was trying to learn more about, you know, we talked about the development. I want to develop. Yes. Then he wasn't thinking about no gifts or nothing. The lady was like, You speak in tongues? I was like, excuse me? You know, I didn't know nothing about that. You speak in tongues? I said, ma'am, I don't I don't understand. She said, Well, if you don't speak in tongues, you can't come in here. Oh, wow. I won't say, well, shut the door. Because I'm not coming. And I said, excuse me. And she said, No, you can't come in here. And shut the door on me. She just lost a soul. If no, if I'm telling you, people who have we have weak people and we have strong folks.

SPEAKER_05 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

If I was one of the weak ones and not and say, forget it, God ain't real, you know, and just forget, you know, that's blood on her hands though. Because I could have walked away. I was hurt.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

You could have been lost.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

For I don't even know what speaking in tongues mean.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

You know what I mean? So, yeah, so, but you have, that's, I'm telling you, it's no, I I don't forget how you said it, but you know, you don't have no steps to say, okay, I'm gonna speak in tongues today, or I'm gonna get taught. No, you gotta receive salvation. You gotta be clean because the Holy Spirit don't dwell in an unclean temple, and I don't believe God is gonna restore his gifts that way. You know. He got purpose for it. And it's to glorify him first of all. Yes, every gift that's given from God.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

That's what I really took when I first read, this was years ago for uh 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. It's to edify the bodies of Christ and to glorify God. To glorify God, that's right, not man. But be but some of these uh uh denominations, they glorify the man.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Because man-made things they're adding to it. If it's not from the word, it's only man-made things that they're adding into it, which turns into traditionalism. That's why they can say everybody jump up and scream and start talking in tongues because some man told them that. That's why the key thing is you have to get in your word, man. You have to to make sure everything that's going on around you at all times is aligned. Because otherwise you can be lost. There's a lot of people, like especially over the past year, that I've come across that that grew up in church, go to church every Sunday, don't even know what Christian means. And I'm I said it on them before. I said, where's a Christian? I don't know. I said you go to church every Sunday and the choir all the above, but don't even know things of that nature. And those things fall on the on the head, on the shoulder. It's gonna fall on number name. It does.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

And I just want to say one more thing about uh interpretation too, uh 1 Corinthians uh 12 and 13. It says that whoever speaks in that um I'm I was trying to find, I can't see it. Whoever speaks in an unknown tongue, uh he Paul said, I'd rather for you to pray for the interpretation. Yes. Because a lot of times it's it's personal and it's private. Yes. And so, and and yeah, we want to know what God is speaking to us, you know, uh that way. So it's nothing wrong with you praying for the interpretation. That's very important, especially in the church setting. You know, you talked about that order, and uh, I just want to do that because sometimes we are um somebody ran up to the car one time, just shadow, whatever. And I'm looking like, what? Couldn't couldn't say what the Holy Spirit was saying through the tongues of you know what I'm saying? So I don't want to hear that. I ain't trying to be funny or nothing, but if you can't interpret what just came out your mouth, then I don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

And that's scripture. And here's where we we in this day and time, you have to know what the word says, stand on the word says and challenge people. See, people's behaviors won't change if we allow them to continue. Amen. Now, amen. When we start talking about interpretation of tongues, the Bible is clear. But why do we allow services to continue contrary to scripture? Where we allow people to get up and it says, if you're gonna speak, do it by course. Let the one speak, let the other speak, and then let the other speak. Let it be decent and in order.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

And then let there be an interpreter. Yes. And when the interpreter starts speaking, tongues should shut up. How many times have we been in service? I mean, it's it's like people just seem like, I just can't help it. The Holy Ghost is all over me. I'm gonna tell you, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna judge people, but according to scripture, either you line or the Bible line. But somebody's not telling the truth because the Bible clearly tells us that the Holy Spirit, you don't control the Holy Spirit, but you do have discipline, you have self-control. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

One gift doesn't run over the other, so there isn't clarification and edification. The bottom line is edification. And when leadership allows situations to take place where people get up and they speak and it demands attention. Now watch this. There have been times, well, I mean the Holy Spirit just took over the service, everybody was just flowing, and it was like you can hear different ones speaking, but it wasn't to the degree it demanded everybody's attention, it required everybody to stop. And it it see, that's when the gift of tongue is operating. But when everybody is just say, just everybody's the Holy Spirit just moving in a service, you know, somebody's here quietly, just, oh Father, hallelujah. They begin to go in tongue. And it's at the same volume. Nobody's voice is louder than the other. That's different than being in a situation where one person is just dominating. When you start getting into a situation like that, okay, so now we need to pay attention.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Everybody, calm down. Let's let that tongue go, and now let's see if another one's gonna go. But that person should not stop, sit down, and there's no interpreter. Yes. That's when it's out of order. See, some people may misunderstand what we're saying that there is no corporate worship. There is corporate worship where there are times where the Holy Spirit moves on everybody, and I mean everybody is just flowing. Yes. There is no predominant tongue, but when it becomes a predominant tongue, nobody's being coached.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Nobody's demanding folk to say something. When the spirit begins to move, then everybody should calm down. That person should speak, and then interpretation should come. That's what the Bible says. Yes. But we allow stuff to go on, and then we wonder why people mock the church. Why, like Sister Pat was saying, you have people that get up in a grocery store and want to start speaking in tongues. You know, uh, well, why don't you just ask me where the soup was? Why don't you just ask?

SPEAKER_03 34:57

I know you speak English. I know it.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Because if I tell you you dropped your 20, guess what? You're gonna say where?

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Speaking English, you're gonna say, where my money?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

You ain't gonna be doing that, Holy Ghost, where it goes. No, you gonna be gonna snap to yourself and find your 20. And amen. That's true. It's just the way, like you were saying, it's the way we're taught. Sometimes people are afraid to address things because of backlash. They're afraid. People, leaders are afraid to lose members because they come from places where hey, there's what, or or we went to this service, and it seemed like God was moving, and people were just speaking all in tongues, and then and then just no interpretation, but God was moving. And we want to bring this stuff back to our services. So guess what? We can get on Facebook and everywhere else and say, whoo, God was really moving. Well, let's let's see what scripture says, and we'll see who was moving. So we have challenges, but you know, since Pat, you were absolutely right on that. Where there is a clear dominant tongue or tongues, there has to be interpretation.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

And if there's no interpretation, either someone's afraid to give the interpretation. They've never been allowed the opportunity to do that. We don't promote that here. We just like the expression of the tongue.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah. Why is that? Because it's what's in different churches. It's what's allowed by leadership.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

That's it. Everything comes down to what is allowed by leadership. That's what it comes down to. Members only do what they're allowed. That makes sense. Yeah. Like people, like praise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

And something just hit me. I'm not trying to cut jump in them, but I just thought about because we didn't say exactly in the word where we said the last podcast, so I want to put them scripture to where it's breaking down everything that we're discussing right now. Because we didn't say it this one. Absolutely. So just for you all to have the context and get the clear understanding on everything that's being discussed is literally directly in 1 Corinthians chapter 14, 1 through 25. It breaks it all down what we're discussing. The whole formality behind it is all there, just so you can have some biblical context to go back. Because I know we didn't actually say where we're coming from on this. It just hit me to say that. No, I'm glad you said that.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

And that's why, for others, for your information, that's why we read 12 through 14, so you could hear it from the word before we even started the discussion. So this is not opinion-based. Right. This is strictly from the word. Everything that uh Pastor Joel, Pat, Antoine, and myself are talking about, the questions I'm asking are hypothetical questions and are answered so perfectly. And I this was discussion, I was hesitant, like I said, because I was a I was scared of the backlash. I really was. And I'm like, Lord, but the Holy Spirit said, no, you're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Holy bold is gonna talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. And and the people that you're helping, see, there are people that have questions and they needed to hear what was being discussed today because maybe they aren't allowed to question what they see in their churches. So this is a platform that allows God to address. And one thing I found about God was that He will make sure you get the answer you need. Yes. So if you don't get it in your home church, and again, please understand me, I'm not bashing anybody's anything. I'm just saying what scripture says. And we're trying to get people to understand that this is an evil day.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

This is a day where manipulation is running rampant. Compromise is running rampant because people are trying to make a name for themselves. They're trying to grow whatever they have. That's their prerogative. However, what lines up with scripture, there are certain things that we need to address. And this is one of those platforms, it takes courage for you to do what you're doing. Thank you. Because people want to dance around this issue. But you can't dance around this issue. I refuse to be a conduit for ignorance. I'm not gonna do it. I've seen lives, precious lives, people today are confused.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

People today, I'm gonna throw this out and get off of it. But people, you know, I talked to one lady and she was sincere. She's like, Pastor, I just don't know. Who am I praying to? Is Jesus God? Am I praying to him or am I praying to the Father? People have legitimate questions. They need to understand it. And the Bible tells us as leaders, we're supposed to be able to answer those questions. And I'm telling you, thank you, Jesus. And I'm not throwing any leaders under the bus. When I say leader, I'm including me. Amen. Because I have to give account to God. But the Bible says, I'm gonna give you pastors, leaders, that will feed you with knowledge. Yes, right. If you don't get knowledge, you don't have a leader from God. I'm just I'm just telling you what scripture says. Guess what? That is a gift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

If a leader cannot open your eyes to the truth by the Spirit, backed by Scripture, I will strongly encourage you. First, pray for your leader.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

You, God may have sent you there. Again, I'm not I'm not saying Exodus. You need to pray for your leader. Sometimes people need people that will surround them that are not yes people.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

All right.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

That stamp okay on everything they do. But you need, if God placed you there and He points things out, you have an obligation to pray for your leader. One thing I strongly push for the team is say, you guys, pray for my mind. Yes. Because that's where I'm don't pray for my house. I got a good house. Don't pray for my car, don't pray. I don't need the look. Jesus said, What's right, I'll pay. You just go and preach. So whatever I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get. Yes, but you pray for my mind. Yes, Lord. Because that's where the warfare is. And I'm encouraging all of you that are listening, if you're in a place where you've been enlightened on something and maybe leadership is not teaching on it, now pray for your leader's mind. Pray for your leader to have boldness to address the issues that need to be addressed. Because I'm telling you something. When a house is full of bugs, you do what you need to do to get them bugs out of there. That's what you do. And if you're in a place where God may have sent you there as a can of raid, all right. And you just need to spray. But I encourage you spray respectfully.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Get your leaders off to the side and say, hey, I've got a question. I see so-and-so, but the Bible says, can you help me with that? See, it's all in the approach. You never want to just kill anybody, but you need clarity. And you make it absolutely clear, Pastor, you know, I love you. You know, I believe you, you, you're doing what you're doing, if that's the case, never lie. And I ask the Holy Ghost to help you word your mouth. But say, look, I have a question on so-and-so, so-and-so. It sounds like you're saying, if nobody hears me speak in tongues, I'm not saved. But scripture says, so-and-so, can we talk about that? We need to talk about that and walk through scripture with your leader. And if your leader absolutely refuses, then you need to go to God for direction. That's what you need to do. But always ask questions in love and in sincerity, and be willing to accept the answer that's Bible-based and true.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

I had a leader to tell me I'm more I'm worried about the ninety-nine, not the one that left. And that hurt me so bad. And I told him, I was that one. I was that one. It's so many pastors that got things, not the pastor, but bishop's leadership that have it all twisted. If somebody in speaking to the leaders, if somebody comes to you and has a legitimate question, it's your job. It's your duty. That's why you're in the position.

unknown 44:26

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

That's true. To answer that question. Maybe you don't know the answer and you shame. And you think that probably what it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Oh, it comes down to that. A lot of times. That's probably a lot of people. I've talked to you, you'd be surprised with some conversations that I've had. And I always try to admonish uh, you know, the brotherhood and sisters, guys, if we don't know, let's not pretend.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

Yeah. Amen. Ain't that the truth? Let's get an answer. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

We we know important.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

And when we understand that, we can quit, you know, hurting people. And again, I don't want anyone to walk away from this session today thinking, man, they were bashing leaders. No, but everything. Everything comes down to leadership.

SPEAKER_05 45:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

That's what it comes down to. And we are just trying to make sure that when we talk about gifts, it comes from the Holy Spirit. That's right. The Holy Spirit always aligns everything with Scripture. So if you hear something and you think it's the Holy Ghost, but it contradicts Scripture. No, it isn't a new thing. Don't believe that lie. People were quick to tell you, well, you know, God said, I'm going to do a new thing. He's not doing anything contrary to Scripture. The Bible said there's nothing new under the sun. It just may be revealed to you as new, but it isn't new to God. That's right. He knew He finished the end from the beginning. He knew all that. So we I just want to encourage you to know that your approach, when you see Scripture, when you see things contrary to Scripture, trust me, you, if you approach it right, God will find a way to bring peace. And sometimes people get convicted by the way you come to them. If you come with an attitude, or if you come doing an honest, you know, looking at him like he's a fisheye food.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

You're going to be met with resistance. But when you come in the spirit of love and humility, genuinely wanting clarification. And people know when you really want to know, or you trying to size them up and trap them and do the aha, gotcha. Right. When you go in the spirit of humility and love and say, look, the Bible says for us to reason together. The Bible says that in the in in days of old, they question what the apostles taught to see whether it was so. I'm just trying to be like Bereans. I want to make sure that what I'm being taught is according to scripture. And I hope you're not offended.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

But I need an answer over here. And what I'm seeing is not lining up with what I'm reading in the scripture. Can you help me? See, when you do it like that, again, you're not throwing leadership under the bus. No. You're calling for accountability and clarity.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

That's that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Amen. Because uh I'm glad that you said that because that is couldn't be farther away from the truth. We love our leaders.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

We love them. And I pray for my pastor and I pray for pastors or leaders because at the end of the day, you all have such a heavy responsibility. You carry souls. Yes. And they'll come before them. You have to lead them to Christ.

SPEAKER_05 48:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Ultimately, as the uh followers, our job is to read and to learn for ourselves. Yes, but you have to plant those seeds in us daily. You I pray for leadership. So please, whenever you listen to this, I'm not talking bad about no leader because I I love my pastor.

SPEAKER_05 48:23

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

But we have to talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

That's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

We have to. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

And uh That's crazy you said so much. I'm not worried about that one not understanding. They must clearly understand what the task of and the title they hold and what comes with it. That one is one that you held accountable for, too.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

From the mindset, that doesn't even make sense. How you would ever think that it's fine for that? From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, and that's true. And I'm learning, you know, more and more. Listen. Listen. Listen. You'll you'll learn everything pretty much that you need to know by listening to people. You know, and and you're right. Sometimes, you know, it it's uh God gave me another book, and it's on um how to know if you're under the right leadership. And I'm gonna drop this tidbit on that just to think about it. Do you not know that a lot of people are in really they're in situations they have no idea they're in? Do you not know that you a leader can be fired from God and God still let him keep on working? People don't know that. I believe that Saul was rejected as king. So God didn't immediately kill him, God let him keep right on operating. But there was a way, there was a shift with the way the prophet handled the king after he was rejected. And we learn lessons from that. So people are following. Sometimes leaders have crossed lines that they can't uncross. They have selfish agendas which are revealed. And God will have you to understand certain things where you can put your finger on, oh, okay, I see Ichabod on that door. Yeah, I I've gone as far as I can. So there are there are ways to understand what you are in, when to get out, when to pray, when to consecrate. Sometimes you have to get other people in the church to get together. You'd be surprised who all see what you see.

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

But they will not talk about it because they don't want to be gossipers. They don't want to seem negative, but they're just as grieved in their spirit as you are. And when God connects you with those people, trust me, it will be a spiritual experience because you all want the same thing. We want the church to be healed. That's right. We want the church to grow. We want somebody delivered. That's what that's about.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

That's what it's about. Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

When we start sitting back and sipping and, you know, and gossiping, you know, it starts off in the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

But then somehow it gets in the corner when it's like, time out. You know what? We're not here for that. Because you know what? If you do it to them, you're gonna do it to me. I can't, I can't be caught up in that. This is about healing and deliverance, thank you, Jesus. And the benefit of the body of Christ. Let's be part of the solution.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Let's be part of that. Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Oh Lord, have mercy. It's got to be quitting time. We we thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor Goel. Uh and like I said, he's gonna be back next year. Uh that sounds crazy, but but next year is gonna be here so quick, it's gonna make your head spin. Yeah, and um we'll start tackling the uh titles and uh the other gifts that the Holy Spirit gives us, like the gift of helps that's in uh that's in the First Corinthians 12, 13, or not 13, one of them 12 through 14, and we'll get into those uh gifts uh as well, and then maybe we'll talk about Galatians 5, the fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Okay, first Corinthians chapter 12, 28.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Okay, what Antoine said. Yeah, but Pastor Joel, we thank you once again. Thank you. And can you pray us out? And one thing you said that really uh resonated, we have to pray for our minds. Yes. So if you don't mind praying us out and pray for people's minds, because the mind, boy, is a terrible thing to waste.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah, one one of the uh one of the things I learned as a, and I'm glad it's under the blood, but one thing I learned, you know, in my player days was you know what? It's about the mind. If you get the mind, the body goes where the mind goes.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

That's what I'm saying. That's where when you learn when you were a player, I was a player.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

When you learn that, so you when you learn that, yeah, you get the mind.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

And so thank God for a renewed mind. Yes, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord. Casting that spirit out. Yes, and uh and being free. And Pastor Pat, you said something that was so crucial. Now I'm getting ready to pray, but you said something that's so so crucial. For those that are questioning, you know, your salvation based on tongue. The Bible says that if you don't have the Holy Spirit, he said you're none of mine. But if you've repented, that's right, and the Holy Spirit is in your life, you are sealed. You have his. That's right. Whether you publicly speak in tongues, you are saved. So I just want to put your mind at rest with that.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

I'm sorry, but did you have anything to say? Antoine? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Father, we thank you right now. You said that.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Wisdom is the principal thing, therefore, get wisdom.

SPEAKER_05 54:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

But with all of our getting, get understanding. Father, your people need clarity. Clarity.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Yes, Lord.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

You want us to know what your will is concerning us.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

We ask that you would bless the minds of those that are listening. We're praying for leadership everywhere. Anyone that has any authority over your people in whatever capacity, anyone that's operating in a gift in any capacity.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yes, Lord.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Any lay member that is just waiting to be used. Anyone is trying to figure out which way to go.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Father, you just said if we would acknowledge you in all of our ways, you would direct our path. And if we would commit our works to you, our thoughts would be established.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Yes, Lord.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Father, you revealed your ways to Moses, but people saw your acts.

SPEAKER_05 55:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Leaders were praying that they will understand why you do what you do. That they will be able to share information, take scripture, make it plain so people can live and be able to just walk in practicality. That some that have just clouded and made everything just such a mystery, you bring clarity. Yes, Lord. That's how understanding comes. So whoever needs to cross whoever's path, whoever you need to send in whoever's life, whatever speaker you need to send to that congregation, whatever they need to encounter for people to be free, to have understanding, to have clarity, to have peace in mind. For your kingdom is not meat or drink. But you said it's righteousness, is peace, and it's joy in the Holy Ghost. Yes. So, Father, we thank you right now by faith that you're sending clarity.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Yes, Lord.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

That when your people go into the word, they're going to understand what they're reading.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

And they're going to learn how to apply it.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

Yes, Lord.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Wherever they need to assemble, wherever they need to disassemble, whoever they need to connect with, whoever they need to be freed from, whatever it takes in the name of Jesus. We find the work of the enemy right now. We find the spirit of confusion right now. We rebuke everything contrary to life, health, and peace. In the name of Jesus. We believe those things to be so. We thank you for liberty for your people. In Jesus' name.